STAR Point Transcript - Assistive Technology, Employment and Disabilities
Guests: Joani Werner, Mark Siegel and Pamela Baker
Host: Earle Harrison
Intro music and ID:
From the depths of ingenuity to the heart and soul of assistive technology for people with disabilities, STAR is a System of Technology to Achieve Results.
STAR Point does not endorse or recommend any product, individual or agency. The information expressed on STAR Point is informational in nature and does not imply endorsement by STAR's funders, the National Institute of Disability Rehabilitation Research, or the State of Minnesota.
Hello everybody and welcome to this November 26 live Web cast hosted by the Minnesota STAR Program. STAR is an acronym that stands for System of Technology to Achieve Results and we are happy to be here to discuss issues of interest to people with disabilities. You'll find that STAR has a lot of different types of programming on the star point Web site. If you haven't been there there's a lot of interesting folks there. This is the first time we've ever done a live Web cast. Can you tell? Sorry about the delay. The good news is that we're not Hubbard Communications and we don't have a producer standing there throwing their finger at us like I could see them if they did.
But typically STAR Point discusses assistive technology, high-tech and low-tech solutions for people with disabilities. And assistive technology is actually defined by some folks as any item, piece of equipment or product system that helps to improve the functional abilities of a person with a disability. And today I think we're going to learn that assistive technology doesn't only mean the stuff that you can put your hands on, the tangible technology. It means sometimes the issue becomes how do you get the stuff? And more importantly, the focus of today's program is how do you maintain a job with the use of assistive technology?
And we're pleased to have a very distinguished panel with us, joining us today, as well as my goodness look at this live audience. We've got about 50 registrants and for those listening on line and didn't give up on us, thank you very much. We were only a couple minutes late after all. So we've got lots of options for you. If you're interested in sending e-mail to the STAR staff or to the program during the course of the program, Joan Gilman will be fielding those and she'll be reading those on the air as we go. We also have an option for a telephone call-in. And I'll be giving the information on telephone numbers and things like that in just a few minutes.
But before we begin with our panelists, let's go ahead and give the floor to Chuck Rassbach, executive director of the STAR Program. And he's got a few things to say this morning.
Thank you.
Maybe I should stand back.
Hello, thanks Earle. Hello on behalf of the STAR Program, I'd like to welcome you to our first live Web cast. It's a privilege to present to you this panel of experts in the employment of people with disabilities.
The STAR Program is Minnesota's federally funded Tech Act Project. Star's role is to assure that Minnesotans with disabilities have access to assistive technology information, services and devices.
Earle: About a year ago, the STAR program applied for a pathways to employment grant through the Department of Human Services. Our overall goal was to highlight how assistive technology can make the employment of people with disabilities practical, cost-effective, competitively advantageous and beneficial for employers and employees alike. Please visit the STAR Web site to see our Assistive Technology Works link that contains most of our completed product as we fulfill our grant obligations. Today's Web cast is one of those products. I'm happy to have our panelists here and I'm pleased to turn the program back to Earle so we can discover what our panel has to tell us. Okay. And without any further ado, I will go ahead and introduce our panelists.
Unless they rearranged the chairs on me, which they've been known to do by the way, we've got Joanie Werner down here on the end. Joanie Werner has been a work incentive liaison and PASS specialist for the Saint Paul Social Security office since 1996. Co-founder of the award winning Saint Paul PASS pilot, she's given workshops on PASS and work incentive to hundreds of audiences.
To her right we've got Pamela Baker. Pamela Baker is social worker. She's a licensed social worker and has her masters of social work degree and she has worked in the area of Pathways to Employment, has it been -- 2002, I believe, September of 2002.
To her right is mark Siegel. Mark Siegel received his JD from the University of Minnesota in 1998. And he's got experience with the non-profit PACER Center as a transition specialist as well.
So I would appreciate it if everybody in the room and you can clap at home if you want to, but if you would join me in welcoming our panelists today.
(Applause).
Earle: And I think the order that we're going to take, that we're going to follow is we'll start out talking about the PASS program with Joanie Werner. And hang on just a second. Joanie, I have to boost your microphone there. Go for it.
Joanie Werner: Good morning. My name is Joanie Werner. I'm from the St. Paul Social Security office. I have a new title actually in the area of work incentive coordinator for area 1. So what that means, I'm responsible for handling all the work incentive liaisons or following through on their role communicating to the public the work incentives that Social Security has to offer.
This is a relatively new term for Social Security, and I don't think that many of you guys knew about it, but each Social Security office, big or small, has someone specifically trained in work incentives for Social Security and their call to work incentive liaison person. So whatever office you're going to or visiting, if you want someone really specific trained in Social Security work incentives, you want to ask for the work incentive liaison person. If you can't find them you can always give me a call and I can tell you which, what person that is for the local office.
One of the work incentives that Social Security has to offer is a program called the plan for achieving self-support. And it's been a work incentive that has been around for a long time. But what plan for achieving for self support does is allows a person with a disability or an individual who is blind to set aside either income or resources to buy or -- buy the products that they need in order to reach a work goal. They can set aside money for either training program or just start their own business. More and more we're seeing plans for achieving self-support to start your own business.
And those can be individuals that have income, as I said. So it would have to be a person with Social Security disability income or a person who is receiving supplemental security income who has wages or is a concurrent beneficiary which means they either get SSDI or SSI.
We can also set aside resources. A lot of our clients have more than what's allowed in their resource limit under the Social Security programs, and under SSI, they allow $2,000 right now. But a lot of young people, especially, have money they set aside planning to go to school. Like 5,000, $10,000. So when they call and they want to be eligible for Social Security, they're not because they have more than the $2,000 in the bank account.
So PASS plan can be used also to set aside resources. So that's a little known fact that PASS plan can be used for. So, again, a PASS plan is a work incentive for either SSDI or SSI beneficiaries. Used to set aside either income or resources to help someone purchase the items that they need in order to reach a goal.
Now the PASS plan must be in writing, and they submit that to a group of trained specialists across the United States that help them complete the PASS plan and write out their own plan, because it is an individual plan for them to reach the goal that they would like to meet.
Now, all of the information that I'm talking about can be found a couple of places. The STAR locally here or in the studio has provided their STAR booklet and the PASS cadre's phone number and Social Security's phone number is in that booklet. But the main source of information, if you're looking for information under Social Security, is found on our Web site. And our Web site used to be SSA.gov but we recently changed that to Social Security.gov. If you want specific information on work incentives you want to go Social Security.gov back slash work. W-O-R-K. Again, that's socialsecurity.gov/work.
Keep in mind the PASS program it's a plan to set aside income or resources to help an individual reach a goal. A lot of times it's used with assistive technology. Someone might need a piece of assistive technology to reach a goal. It can set aside some of their income to purchase that piece of assistive technology under the PASS plan.
The other program that we have has been rolled out over a three-year period. And in Minnesota it just got rolled out in November this past week. It's called the Ticket to Work program. The Ticket to Work program is a piece of legislation that Bill Clinton signed in December of 1999 that offers individuals with disabilities a choice of going to where they want to to get the services they need in order to return to work. What they do is they go to agencies called employment networks. And employment networks are a variety of different agencies that they can use in order to help get the services they need in order to return to work or help them reach their goal.
The Ticket program is being handled nationally by a contractor by the name of Maximus, M-A-X-I-M-U-S. You can reach them by calling 1-866-968-7842. The ticket program is voluntary. And with any new piece of legislation, people are just learning about it now and especially in the last 13 states to roll it out. But it is an exciting piece of legislation because it does offer individuals choices about where they go to to get the services they need in order to return to work.
Finally, the last piece of information that I was going to give the audience is the best way to keep in touch and to find out about Social Security work incentives is subscribing to our electronic newsletter. Each month you'll get a free newsletter that will give you information about Social Security's disability programs and the way that you subscribe to that is going on Social Security.gov back slash E news. E-N-E-W-S. That will give you any of the information that's current and up-to-date on a monthly basis. Or if you would like to talk to our representative you can call our toll free number. 1-800-772-1213 and that's answered between seven a.m. and seven p.m. Monday through Friday. I hope you look at the work incentives that Social Security has to offer individuals with disabilities, because they are a great way to provide this service or the tools our clients need in order to return back to work. Thank you.
Earle: Thank you, Joanie Werner, from the Social Security administration. And if you'll you're just joining us on line, you are listening to the real time stream on star point. It's a live broadcast coming from the Blazing Star room in the Centennial Office Building in the capital complex.
And our next contestant is Pamela Baker from the Minnesota Department of Human Services. Pamela.
Pamela Baker: Hi. As Earle stated, I work under the Pathways to Employment initiative, and my primary responsibilities are kind of split. I work on eligibility policy for the Medical Assistance for Employed Persons with Disabilities program. And I'm also doing data collection and evaluation of the programs. So I'm kind of spread broadly over this program.
But I will describe to you what the program actually is. It's Medical Assistance for Employed Persons with Disabilities, otherwise known as MA-EPD by many people. It is a statewide medical assistance program that began in July of '99. And it allows people with disabilities to work and qualify for medical assistance by having higher income and/or obviously having earned income and having higher asset limits. So there's a significant difference from the regular medical assistance program. And the goal is to encourage people with disabilities to work and maintain competitive employment.
In order to qualify for the program, a person must be certified disabled by either Social Security or have a state medical review team certify their disability. Also, the program is geared towards working-age people so between the ages of 16 and 65. And a person would be required to have taxes withheld from their employer so that somebody is actually paying Medicare, state and federal taxes if they're required.
And not be eligible for medical assistance under another more beneficial category such as 16, 19 A or B because a person on those programs would already be receiving medical assistance.
And in the past, a person would, some people were required to pay a premium to be on the program, because it's a work incentive, it's set up -- it's structured like a private health insurance where people pay a monthly premium. Beginning January 1st, all enrollees on the program will be paying a premium. Minimum payment of $35, and based on income, people will then have a sliding fee scale above, depending on their income. So a person is either paying $35 or the greater. And there is no income limit to this program. So people can earn as much as they potentially can earn, and the highest premium would, the scale goes up to 7.5%. So a person would not be required to pay more than that percentage of their income.
I talked about the asset limit, and it's a $20,000 asset limit, which is, again, significantly higher than regular medical assistance, which is $3,000 for a household of one. And then there are the excluded assets, which include spouse's assets. So a married couple can split their assets in half. One homestead property and retirement accounts. Medical expenses, expense accounts that are set up through an employer would also be excluded. A motor vehicle and burial space items and burial funds, those assets do not get counted against the 20,000. I mentioned about the monthly premiums. Also out of the 2003 legislative session, there was also an addition to the costs that a person will pay to be on the program. And it's called an unearned income obligation. So anybody that has any unearned income, such as Social Security disability will also be required to pay one half percent of that income.
So say if a person has $800 in monthly SSDI income, they would pay four dollars in addition to their monthly premium.
The program allows people or the services that are covered are the same as what would be covered under regular medical assistance. But the incentive here and the thing that can help people with disabilities is that it does pay for the costs of prescription drugs, mental health services, personal assistant services, in-patient hospital stays and home care services are also included.
There are also, again, due to the legislative changes, there are co-pays for some of these services now, ranging anywhere from one dollar to three dollars.
And some of the protective things that have been added to this program, which really help people, especially people with disabilities, if they have a medical condition that prevents them from working continually. There is a four month medical leave that if a person has a signed doctor's statement they can continue to be on the program for up to four months if they are, if their condition improves and they will be able to return in four months. So a person would still be required to pay the monthly premium, even if they're not working. But the premium would likely be reduced because their income has changed. So there's that medical leave clause. And there's also a new job loss clause that if a person loses their job and it's not due to their performance or it's beyond their control, if their job was, if they were laid off, it also allows a person four months to look for another job and maintain that medical assistance coverage.
So this is some of the kind of eligibility criteria, and it's been a very successful program since it began in '99. There are currently about 6400 people statewide on the program and it's helped people be able to return to work or go to work that really want to begin competitive employment.
Earle: Great. Thank you Pamela. Pamela Baker from the Minnesota Department of Human Services, talking about the MA-EPD program. Stands for Medical Assistance for Employed Persons with Disabilities. You know, it occurred to me that when I was telling you you could send in your emails, I don't believe that I gave an e-mail address, did I? Well, you gotta know that. So I'm going to give it right now. STAR.POINT@state.mn.us is the e-mail address you can if you want to send questions to ask any of our panelists any questions. And after we speak with Mark Siegel for a short time here, we will be opening the floor for questions at that point. We'll be reading e-mail messages. Fielding questions from our live participants here today. And you'll also have an opportunity to call in and stand ready with a pencil and paper because I'm about to give you that telephone number after we hear from Mark.
Mark Siegel: All right. Hello. As Earle said, I am also on Pathways to Employment. I am one of the policy consultants. And I will talk a little bit about what I do later on. But first, I just sort of want to tie together what Joanie and Pam were talking about.
As many of you know, today there are all kinds of federal and state laws that deal with disability and employment as well. The ADA, the Americans with Disabilities Act, is probably the law that just about everyone has heard of. And I think that all of these different laws really reflect a paradigm shift in how society looks at people with disabilities and what they are able to contribute to society.
Ten years ago, which doesn't seem like a long time, but ten years ago I think attitudes about disability and employment were different than they are today. Until very recently, I think the general assumption was that if you had any type of significant disability, you were not expected to work.
I, myself, have a severe disability. And 20 years ago I didn't think anyone would have thought twice if I had chosen not to work. So in the last 10 years, I think that attitudes have really started to change. And that's reflected in all of these different programs that are now available, things like the Ticket to Work law and the MA-EPD.
Now, I said that things have started to change. That doesn't mean that there still aren't many barriers to people with disabilities who want to work. We still need to address issues like better transportation so that people who want to work are able to go to their jobs on a daily basis.
We need more accessible housing so that people with disabilities can live independently and work at the same time. We need better access to personal assistance services at the workplace so that when someone is on the job, they're still able to address their needs like using (inaudible) all of those things that everyone else takes for granted.
And I think that one of the most significant barriers that remains for people with disabilities to be employed to their full potential is their own expectations and the expectations of those around them. For so long, people with disabilities have not been expected to achieve much beyond the very simple things in life and as a result many people with disabilities simply assume that they are not able to work.
And it becomes something that they take as a fact that will never change. One of my pet issues is (inaudible) people with disabilities and their needs. And I really hope that over the next two years we really change the way zone (phonetic) adults with disabilities see themselves and how they see their futures. And once we change their minds, this can change the minds of their families, their teachers, their rehabilitation counselors. I really think that if we want to see a radical shift in how people with disabilities are treated in mainstream society, we really need to start with adolescents and then adults. And so with that I'll step off my soap box.
Earle: That's quite all right.
Mark Siegel: I do want to talk a little bit about some of the things that we have done at Pathways.
Earle: Hold that thought because we're approaching the halfway point in the program today and this is going to be a good opportunity to remind people who might have just joined us that they are listening to the live broadcast coming to them on November 26, 2003 from 10:00 to 11:00 a.m. and I've already given you an e-mail address STAR.Point@state.MN.US. Let me take the opportunity to give a couple of telephone numbers as well. If you'd like to make a comment or have any questions for any of our panelists or all of them, you can go ahead and give us a call if you're in the metropolitan area. That telephone number is area code 651-296-2771. If you're calling from out state Minnesota or beyond you can give us a call on our toll free line that number is 800-657-3862. That number again is 657-3862. And once again in the metropolitan area that's 651-2967-2771. TTY users, of course we would also encourage you if you'd like to use your voice relay, simply dial 711 TTY direct TTY number here is 651-296-9478. The toll free number for TTY users is 1-800-657-3895. We're going to take a short break, probably about a minute and a half or two minutes or so and then we are going to continue our discussion with Mark on the Pathways to Employment project.
Oh, incidentally, when the sound fades away just keep your player running, because you have not lost the connection. You will experience some silence here in the next couple of minutes.
We're going to go ahead and get started. We apparently have a caller on the phone. Okay, first of all, go ahead, caller
Ma'am, go ahead now.
Okay.
Earle: Okay. Welcome, you're on STAR Point.
Thank you. I have a question regarding PASS plans. I'm Carrie Malone from Goodwill Technology from Oregon. I am one of the out of state callers. I am one of the people who are have PASS plans but being a service provider we have found many roadblocks to overcome especially when you're first trying to apply for the PASS plan trying to make the assessments on what equipment you're going to need and how much training a person will need, guessing from the very beginning and having to allay if you have to amend the PASS plan if you go over or under the amounts on the line items. Do you have a suggestion on how to expedite that? .
Joanie Werner: What PASS cadre are you working with in Oregon? Are you working with Denver? You must be working with the specialist out there. What cadre, what location are they in?
We're working with people here locally.
Joanie Werner: What I would recommend doing is contacting the PASS specialist that approve your PASS plans and open up some communication with them about how they'd like you to, you know, approach your PASS plan initially so you can get the estimate as close as you can right off the top. And if you don't know who that is, I don't think that you have a -- I think the local office might be the conduit for the PASS cadre out there. But if you could e-mail Earle your name and phone number, I'd be happy to call you back with the contact person, I think, who could speed up the process, or to at least help you in the process resolve that a little bit faster for you.
Earle: Is that good for now, Carrie? Carrie?
Yes.
Earle: Does that sound reasonable? And Joanie, you'll be giving some contact information at the end of the program.
Joanie Werner: Right.
That would be great.
Joanie Werner: I can give you my phone number right now and you can give me a call. It's 651-2904 extension 3061, and I think what you what I'm hearing is facilitate some communication between the person who approves the PASS plans in your area. So I think I can help you do that a little bit.
Earle: Thank you, Carrie.
Thanks for the call and call back if you have any other questions.
Will do.
Earle: Thanks. Carrie Malone from southern Oregon. My name is Earle Harrison, you're listening to STAR Point a project of the Minnesota STAR program. If you're interested in giving us a call here today we're talking about employment and disabilities. And we already have another caller on the line. I'm going to ask you to go ahead, if you wouldn't mind reaching over and turn down your computer speakers. Is this Joanie?
It is Joanie. I know you still have Mark to finish up but I thought this was a good general question you might want to answer before you go any further.
Earle: Is this one of our e-mail submissions?
Yes, it is. It's from Sara McNeilly at Pine County HHS. She asks would you please define person with disability. Does it include people with mental health diagnoses?
Earle: Which one of you want to-- well, first of all I know the answer to the mental health disabilities. The answer is yes, it does include them. But any of you want to field that.
Mark Siegel: I can answer that.
I'll hang up, Earle.
Earle: Thank you, Joan.
Mark Siegel: This is Mark. And yes, a person with a disability, absolutely, includes someone with a mental health diagnosis. The definition of disability varies slightly, depending on what area of law you're talking about. But generally a disability is any physical or mental impairment that interferes with one or more major life activities. And life activities are anything from dressing to eating, breathing. It's a pretty broad definition.
Earle: Well, thanks, Mark. At this time I'd like to, and I hope that answers your question, at this time I'd like to ask if there are any questions of our live audience here today. Anybody want to speak out or do you have anything written down, Chuck? Okay. Why don't we go ahead and get the microphone over to Jan Bailey and once again, as Chuck is giving the microphone to Jan I'll give out the telephone numbers again that's 651-2967-2771.
Otherwise the toll free number 1-800772-1213. TTY users are welcome to use voice relay or 711 or call us directly on the TTY 651-296-9478 toll number 1-800-657-3895. Go ahead, Jan.
My question is -- hello? I'm trying to hold it far away. My question is...
Earle: Actually if you get closer to it you'll be better off.
My question is for a person who is self-employed, what about MA-EPD, are they eligible in any way?
Pamela Baker: People who are self-employed are eligible. They must show they're paying taxes or show their business records in order to verify their self-employment.
Earle: Any other questions from the audience here?
Earle.
Earle: Yes, Chuck. I'm sorry. We got a little squeaky there. We have a question here.
Paul Deming and I'm a free-lance interpreter as well as working under a grant from Department of Human Services as a deaf blind specialist for the state. And just in my general understanding, information about a lot of these programs is still so limited, it seems. It's not well known, I think. Especially in Ticket to Work, given the fact that it's implemented this month here in Minnesota. My question specifically for that and it may be my limited understanding but what I understand is that programs or agencies who provide services to a person using Ticket to Work will not get reimbursed for their services until after the person is employed, I believe it's 90 days. I'm not sure what that limit is. And my question and concern, if that's true, and quite a few people that I've worked with in the past, especially if they're on a college education track, you're talking four or five years before the person eventually gets into employment after completing their education and adjustment training and so forth. First, correct me if I'm wrong if the service providers have to wait until after that to get paid. If so I see it as a loophole in the system. There's not too many people who can wait four or five years to wait to get paid for their services.
Earle: Pam, would you like to respond to that.
Joanie Werner: I think that would be me. This is Joanie.
Earle: You're right.
Joanie Werner: That's okay. You're correct. Employment network or the agencies that provides services to our clients don't get paid. They either can choose an outcome payment or outcome milestone payment and they get paid depending on when their clients make over substantial gainful activity otherwise referred to as SGA. And so they do have to wait for payment. So for individuals who are seeking their education and they're not going to make over that amount of money needed in order for the agency to get paid, the Ticket program might not be the employment support or work incentive for them to use. But you do bring up a good point, because the Ticket to Work program is only one of many work incentives that Social Security has. So the reason the Ticket to Work program came about, and any piece of new legislation, right now we're trying to get the word out about it so you're probably not alone in not knowing what it is because a lot of people don't know what it is. It's a voluntary program but it doesn't replace any of the other programs that Social Security has. And anyone who is going to a four-year program or a five-year program, I would strongly encourage to use the PASS program. Because the PASS program are the student earned income exclusion, because the PASS program would allow them to set aside the income to help pay for the educational expenses they have. So that's a way for paying their costs and helping them to reach their goal also. So that could be an employment support. They could use. And then when they're done using the PASS program there's nothing to say they can't use all the work incentives together. They could use a PASS and the ticket too where they're nearing the completion of their degree. I hope that helps a little.
Earle: Okay. And I feel like we kind of gypped you, Mark, let's step back and talk about, you wanted to touch on Pathways to Employment specifically. I think we could dedicate the balance of our remaining time to that and one or more, one or two more questions from our audience, either on line or here live. So Mark.
Mark Siegel: Thanks, Earle. I'll try to be brief. But one of the things that Pathways does is outreach to the general community about the employability of people with disabilities. Over this last summer, we did a video in conjunction with (inaudible) media of St. Paul. It is a 30-minute video. The title of it is Working with Ability. And it's a very general overview of some individuals with disabilities that are in different types of jobs and how they use assistive technology in their jobs. Some of the other issues that they deal with every day, transportation. It just shows them in their natural work environment. And I brought some copies of the video for our live audience. And if anyone out there is interested in receiving a copy, you can just e-mail me. My e-mail address is, I don't know if it's on the STAR Web site or not. mark.siegel@state.mn.us
Earle: Not currently, but it could be.
Mark Siegel: Yeah. So why don't we do that. Why don't we, we'll put my e-mail address on the STAR Web site and you can just e-mail me for the video.
So those are -- that's one example of what I do at Pathways. I do a lot of general outreach, along with some of the policy issues that I also deal with.
Earle: In my telephone conversation a couple weeks ago with you and Pamela you touched on some interesting points. And I think the rate of or the number of persons currently in the United States who are unemployed, the number of people with disabilities who are unemployed, can you speak to that a little bit?
Mark Siegel: Yeah, sure. Nationwide, the unemployment rate of people with disabilities is generally around 65 to 70 percent. Out here in Minnesota, we do a little better than that. I think we are 10 or 20 percentage points under the national average. But that's still pretty high. So you can see that we still have a long way to go.
Earle: And what about interviews, when an interview is conducted and a disability is not disclosed, is it, does it rest on the interview es shoulders to disclose that disability prior to the interview?
Mark Siegel: Yes, that is a difficult issue. And a lot of-- the decision really rests with the job applicant. Some disabilities are pretty obvious. Like mine is. It's hard not to notice it. So you disclose it just by showing up. Others like mental illness or HIV status or some other hidden disabilities are not as obvious so it really isn't to the individual. If you feel that you need some sort of accommodation on the job, then, yes, you do have to disclosure disability at some point. When you do that is up to you.
Earle: Okay. Well, thank you. You are listening to STAR point, a project of the Minnesota STAR Point program. This is going to actually wrap it up, unfortunately. So Joan, back there at the office, I guess that's going to be the end of our phone calls. I think we can take time for one more quick question, if somebody here is so inclined in the live audience.
Earle, I have a question here in the back.
Earle: Certainly.
Yes. My name is Gene Little, and I'm just wondering if you're a person with the disability and you've never worked before and you would like to work but you know you're going to need some sort of assistive technology, how do you know what you could need to use to be employed? Where would you go to find that out?
Earle: Good question.
Mark Siegel: Let's see. I'll answer that. At least I'll try to answer that. I'm sure that STAR has many resources on their Web site that will direct you to different resources for assistive technology. But I think what's most helpful is to receive some sort of evaluation from a occupational therapist or someone like that. I know that a lot of hospitals and clinics do that service. So just look around in your area.
Earle: Okay. Well, this is going to conclude this session of STAR Point. If you're on the listening audience, we won't be on the air anymore but if you still have questions you ask give us a call here over probably the next two or three minutes, maybe 15, you can ask some questions of the panelists and certainly that offer is of course extended to you folks here in the audience. Now, I would be remiss in not mentioning the fact that STAR has a contract that we're about to wrap up here with Pathways to Employment. This broadcast is one of the products that has come out of that contract, as has a interview with Jim. He showed up for a staff meeting and I decided to record him. That's sitting on the on demand STAR Point site and it's of course also worked into our rotation of 24 hour programming as well. The information if you are looking for more information, I will, in the Web site over the next couple of days, be placing any contact information that our panelists wish to give me, and/or Web sites where you can find out more information.
If you would like to find out more general information about work and disabilities, AT works, that's what the STAR program is, we're about assistive technology assuring access to assistive technology to Minnesotans and on our main Web site another of the products that came out of the Pathways to Employment initiative is the AT works Web site. And hopefully you can find some good information there.
Thank you so much for joining us today. And hopefully we can do this again sometime. Thanks, guys.
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