STAR Point Transcript - Drive Safe
Guest: Sue Redepenning
Host: Earle Harrison
Intro music and ID:
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Transcript begins here:
EH: Hi, and welcome to yet another edition of STAR Point, a production of the Minnesota STAR Program, a System of Technology to Achieve Results. We're on the move today with Drive Safe, a company dedicated to helping people with disabilities learn how to drive. Our guest today is Sue Redepenning with Drive Safe, an occupational therapist, and thanks for joining us today.
SR: You're welcome.
EH: Tell us a little bit about the program.
SR: Well, Drive Safe is a company that works with people with different types of abilities and disabilities, and we really work hard to assess if a client is able to drive and, if they are able to safely, what types of adaptive equipment they might need or what types of adaptive instruction that they might need from our occupational therapists who are licensed driving instructors in the state of Minnesota.
EH: Okay. So you've got double certification. You're both an occupational therapist and you are a driving instructor, is that correct?
SR: Yeah, uh-huh.
EH: You serve a variety of disabilities?
SR: Yeah, we do work a lot with paraplegics, spinal cord injury clients, spina bifida, cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy, MS. We also work with people with learning disabilities that need to learn things in a different, more broken-down fashion, so we're able to break down both taking the permit test and instructor for behind the wheel so that it's more simplified as they're learning it.
EH: Talk a little bit about the process that a person goes through -- that a person with a learning disability goes through and some of the issues that --
SR: Uh-huh.
EH: -- face people with learning disabilities.
SR: Well, right now a lot of school systems offer the courses that you need to take for the hours of classroom time for taking the permit test, but it's a large classroom, which does not work very well for people with learning disabilities. Oftentimes in the school system they're in classrooms of, you know, 10 students where they're getting more individual attention, and then they get into that large classroom with up to 30 to 50 students, depending on how many are enrolled at that time, and they're really getting lost in the process because the information is coming at them so fast and the drivers manuals are so thick that they have a hard time breaking down the information that they need to learn.
So what we help to provide is how to break that down, how to simplify that so that they can learn that, because once it gets in and they know it, then they do well, but it's getting the information into them that's hard. They need it in a different fashion. And then after -- when they take the permit test, also there's different options for how you can take the permit test, and a lot of people are not aware of the options, so we help them work through that so we can pick the best option for them for taking the test also.
Right now a lot of the sites are offering the test on the computer, so you have to look at the computer. It tells you the question and then you input the answer, and that doesn't work well for everyone. So they do have options where you can have someone read the test to you and you can tell them your answer. You also can do a written format where you read it and you answer it. So there's about four or five different options that are alternative options that people can use to take the test.
EH: Is there a process that people need to go through in order to qualify for your services?
SR: Basically, it's just calling and, you know, asking questions. We're also there as a resource. So even if it's not a client we're seeing, we can help talk them through or the family through the steps of what they need to do even if it might not be our resources that they need. And then when they make the call, then it's just a matter of us trying to figure out what their needs are, if we're able to help them, or where we need to refer them to.
EH: And do you require some sort of clinical reference material or anything from a doctor or --
SR: We don't -- we do not need a doctor's order. What we have the clients do is, when we do see them as our client, we have them sign a sheet that we can mail all the information or fax the information to their physician or whomever is making the referral that wants the information, but we do not need a doctor's order unless insurance is paying for our services and they require the doctor's order. And we can do all the clinical pieces, so we don't need to have any clinical information, but if the client is coming from a site that has clinical information, we definitely do take that and have them fax that to us and utilize that in our service.
EH: And is there an assessment process?
SR: Yes, there is. What we'll do -- you know, again, it depends on where the client's at. If they're not permit yet, they need to work on their permit, or if they're in the process of being licensed, but both ways we do an assessment. With clients that are trying to get their permit but are having trouble with the class or passing the test, what we'll do is come in and do a clinical assessment of what their learning style is and how they learn information best, how they retain it best, and how they're able to take testing materials, and then we'll break down the studying process for them so that they can study for the permit test and learn the information really well. And then we'll help them to know how to request the test to be taken.
So that takes about two hours to do that whole assessment and to break that down with the client, and then they get a written report and a broken-down simplified manual that they can use. And then if they're going for their license, what we do is we do an hour of clinical where we look at their reaction time, their thinking abilities, their vision, their motor abilities for being able to drive, and then decide are they going to need any adaptations, are they going to need any adaptive style when we're instructing them, and then take we them out in a vehicle to see what they know and what they can already do, and we start in the parking lot and then we work our way up, depending on their skill.
EH: I'm assuming that you occasionally have to be the bearer of bad news.
SR: Yes. Yes, we do. You know, if a client, let's say, had a stroke and they're no longer able to drive and we've taken them out, we've done the clinical portion, we've taken them out on the driving portion and they do not any longer have the skills to drive, then we do go over that with them. But, again, we're very good at going over that with them and their family members. We do request the family be there if they can, because that's a really important process to have the support of the family, especially as you're going over a difficult topic like that. So we're very sensitive, but, yes, we do do that and do need to report to the physicians, report to the state when the client's not safe to drive.
EH: And do you ever come up against barriers in terms of you've already informed the physician, the family and the individual that you've already recommended that it's not a good idea --
SR: Uh-huh.
EH: -- for them to drive, but they continue driving anyway? Does Drive Safe do an intervention in that event?
SR: Well, what we do is go over with both the client, their family and the physician that the license is going to be canceled after that process because they're not safe to drive. So if they choose to drive, it's illegal, for one thing. So we go over that whole process with them, because if they were to be pulled over, they don't have a valid driver's license anymore. And oftentimes when we're going over this with the family, that's when the family decides to take the keys and the vehicle away too and kind of goes over that with the family members so that it's not free access for them to have that vehicle, it's not tempting for them to be able to do that.
EH: So that's the downside. The upside is providing the service to people who never thought they'd ever be able to drive again, and I'm sure you've got some success stories.
SR: Oh, yeah. We have a lot of people who are very excited because they didn't feel like they would have the possibility to drive. We in Drive Safe have some of the highest technology that you can have and offer in the area of driving, so we've been able to service a lot of spinal-cord-injured clients who thought that they would never have that freedom again, where, with a miniature steering wheel and an electronic gas and brake, they're able to drive safely and get around and be independent and get to work and go out with their friends, and they're very happy and very excited.
EH: That's the case with -- with higher -- higher level spinal cord injuries as well, or --
SR: Uh-huh. We have all the way up through -- we're getting a joy stick control, which is the highest level that you can offer, where a client just needs to be able to have the use of one of their hands to be able to operate for it and side-to-side motions to get the gas, brake and steering. And then you can use voice activation for all the internal controls so that somebody from a wheelchair that has limited use -- they still have to have some use of one of their arms -- is able to look at driving, and potentially if they can, you know, do all the other maneuvers safe, be a safe driver.
EH: What kind of work do you do in terms of defensive driving?
SR: We do a lot of work in defensive driving. The president of Drive Safe, John Peterson, is an ex-police officer by trade, and he also trains police officers and fire department vehicle drivers on defensive driving maneuvers. So he's very skilled in defensive driving skills, and he teaches that to the occupational therapists that are also driving instructors for people with disabilities, and so we spend a lot of time on predicting what other people are going to be doing when driving, how to scan, how to keep yourself safe, how to drive in winter and all those skills for defensive driving.
EH: And those are skills that everybody should --
SR: Every should have, but not everybody does have, as we know as we drive in Minnesota. But we want our drivers to be extra safe, so we go the extra mile to teach them all those skills so that not only can they pass the state road test, but they're actually going to be very good, very safe, very defensive drivers.
EH: Are there differences in standards for a person with a spinal cord injury, for example, or do they simply have to pass the standard test?
SR: Any driver in the state of Minnesota has to pass the same test as anyone else. So we're talking the state road test, that they have to be able to maneuver the vehicle in and around all the obstacles that we all have to do on the state road test.
EH: But are there any safety issues that a person with limited mobility needs to observe?
SR: Oh, I see what you're saying. Well, we do teach our clients like with spinal cord injuries and other disabilities what they're disability entails and how to be careful. For instance, I always suggest that they bring a cell phone with in case they have trouble alongside the road. They're not going to be as mobile to get help, especially in the winter. So not that I want them to use the cell phone while they're driving, but when they have a problem and they pull over, I want them to have access to that so they can get help right away. And then we also talk about, you know, hypothermia and things like that that are going to affect people with disabilities more so than even a person that's able-bodied. We do go through all of that so that they understand the risks and can take precaution for that and be prepared, especially since our climate, as we know this year especially, changes up and down with warm weather and cold weather, and both can be a problem.
EH: And what about scheduling?
SR: Well, I think the unique thing about our service is that our schedules are really varied, so we have staff that will work at, you know, different times of the day. So we can offer seven-days-a-week service during the day, we can offer evenings, we can offer weekends, because often our clients are working, they're going to school. They have lives, obviously. That's why they want to be able to get back into driving, and so we're able to schedule around what they need to get done during the day and make it convenient for them. Also, if the client's having trouble driving at night or driving in the snow or driving in certain circumstances, we can set up a situation to practice in those types of environments, which I think makes us really unique.
EH: Well, I would imagine that you're braver some days than others.
(Laughing.)
SR: Well, this winter has been really mild, so this has been easy; but, yes, we do have, you know, days that are -- you know, the weather is not cooperating. And it depends on what the client's needs are. I mean, we do cancel, obviously, if we have a blizzard or something that we wouldn't recommend anyone drive in, but we use opportunities of rain and snow to practice some of the skills that our clients need too so that they learn how to use this equipment in the weather we deal with in Minnesota every day.
EH: And what about funding?
SR: Funding? We do work with the Division of Vocational Rehab Services, and that is when a client is -- you know, has a return-to-work plan or a school plan that they're involved with the Division of Vocational Rehab Services to help pay and fund for those programs, and the ultimate goal is to get that person to work. And a lot of times they'll pay for driving services, because driving is a component of what they want the client to be able to do to get to and from school, to and from work. So they've been a really good funding source that we work with very closely.
And we have had some luck with insurance companies reimbursing a client. It's not seen as a service that they automatically cover, but it is one that they'll look at case by case. So we do always encourage a client to check out their plan and see if that's something that might partially be covered or fully be covered, and then it's private pay for most of the rest of the clients. Although, some clients do fundraising activities or they'll go to a local social organization in their community and get funding, so we encourage them to check out all those resources first.
EH: And I'm assuming that the insurance companies that occasionally reimburse are third-party insurance companies --
SR: Yes.
EH: -- versus --
SR: Yes.
EH: -- Medicare, Medicaid?
SR: Medicare, Medicaid, Medical Assistance will not cover, reimburse the service at all. They see driving right now as not a medical necessity but a luxury of us being able to get around.
Musical Break.
EH: Welcome back to STAR Point, a production of the Minnesota STAR Program, a System of Technology to Achieve Results. My name is Earle Harrison. My guest is Sue Redepenning, an occupational therapist for Drive Safe, a company dedicated to meet the driving needs of people with all types of disabilities.
Obviously, providing this type of service requires some sort of expertise or specialization. Tell us what it is that you as a professional in the field need to do in order to acquire that level of expertise.
SR: Yeah. All of our occupational therapists that work for Drive Safe have at least 15 years of rehab experience, which allows us to be able to work with a variety of disabilities that we work with and be able to adapt to what their needs are. So all of us have -- are highly trained in visual problems, learning disabilities, physical disabilities, and that really helps us to know how to test people for driving and how to adapt the driving situation. Staff that works with the neurological clients are all occupational therapists, so we are licensed. We keep or license current, and we take courses all throughout the year to keep up to date both on the disabilities we're working with as well as any new things that are occurring in the field of driving.
We also take it one step farther and we're nationally certified as driving evaluators, and we do that through ADI, which is the Association for Driving Instructors. We are also licensed through the State of Minnesota as driving instructors, so we pass all of the testing that we need to do for that and stay in good contacts with the State of Minnesota and keep up to date on all the different rule changes and legislative changes related to driving.
EH: Tell us about some of the equipment itself.
SR: The equipment itself, we have all the way, you know, from the lowest technology available in driving to the highest, which gives us a lot of variability when working with clients so that we can meet the needs of anyone that's referred to us. We can go through and see whether or not there is something out there that can help them. We have three sedans that we can utilize that we have a left-foot accelerator for. We have different types of hand controls for different kinds of hand mounts for the steering wheel, and then we have the high-technology minivan with the joy stick control and the high-technology van that has the EGB, which is the mini steering wheel and the electronic gas and brake. So we have a lot of variety of both left and right controls and a variety of high-tech and low-tech controls so that we can try out a lot of different things with the client and find out what meets their needs the best and is the most cost-efficient for them.
EH: Anything new and exciting in the way of global positioning satellite technology where you're driving down the street and it says, "Approaching Fourth Street" --
SR: Oh, I see what you're saying, MAPS.
EH: -- "turn left"? Yeah.
SR: Well, we're looking at those. I don't -- I don't know a lot about them yet, but that is something that I'm checking into, because a lot of the clients that I do work with have difficulty with directions and finding their way. So that is something we're exploring. As of yet I haven't found, you know, like a system that would work really well with my clients or that's very cost-effective, but that's something we'll keep tracking and looking at and seeing if there's some equipment out there to help with that piece, because that is an important piece for a lot of the clients that we work with.
The other thing is that our president of our company is highly trained in high-tech equipment, John Peterson, and he's certified to make any adaptations or any intricate adjustments to any of the equipment that we have or that the client gets installed in their vehicle, which is really nice, because then if a vendor installed something and it needs to be positioned a little differently for the client to be able to utilize it, he is able to make all those modifications because he's highly trained in how to do all of that. So that's another unique service that we offer in the area of the high-tech equipment.
EH: What about for people with some visual involvement where the problem isn't as black and white as not driving at night or during the day --
SR: Uh-huh.
EH: -- where there's some -- some real fluctuation in the -- from day to day?
SR: What we do a lot of times with clients that have a lot of fluctuations is that, you know, we'll do a really good clinical assessment of what their abilities are and what their limitations are and get a handle on what's going on visually; and if they're being seen by an optometrist or an ophthalmologist, we make sure we get them involved so we find out all the most accurate information about their vision. But if it does vary from day to day and time to time, that's a person that we're going to do lessons with, and we're going to alternate when we do them so that we can see how they do on their best days and how they do on their worst days and how they do in different circumstances, so that we can see, you know, is it someone who needs some specialized mirrors, is it someone who needs some restrictions, you know, are there ways to adapt for that visual problem, or is it restrictions that they need.
It's interesting because with our students we start from ground zero. I mean, a lot of these students that we take have never had a driving experience before. A lot of them didn't ever know they'd ever be able to have a driving experience. And then even some of the clients that have had driving experiences prior to their disability can't believe how different it is after their disability to learn to drive again. So we start from ground zero and really go over everything in the car, how it works, make sure that they're able to operate all the equipment, just the regular equipment in the car.
And then we also do go over how the brake and the gas feel, because if they've had a disability that affects any motor skills or any sensation, it's going to have a whole different feel for them. So that's why we always start in the parking lot. We always go over everything from step one throughout. Even though it seems like that might be monotonous, it helps our clients be really safe, really good drivers and to learn how to do it even though things have changed for them.
EH: How about simulators, do you use those at all?
SR: We don't have a simulator, but we do have a working relationship through Sister Kenny Institute, and they do have a simulator. So if we do have clients that we feel are appropriate for practice on the simulator, we can utilize that, but from what I'm finding for the most part, the real experience is what the clients need and it's what we really can tell whether they have potential or not. The simulator comes into play, though, when a client is learning to drive if it's taking them longer to learn. Like a client that's got cerebral palsy, that's never done anything with two hands before and is learning how to do that and it's really hard for them, the simulator can be a good avenue to practice that skill, and it's a cheaper alternative than going out in the car all the time, plus it's a lot safer.
EH: And they can practice on their own time.
SR: Right. And so we do try to use it -- utilize that when it's beneficial. I think what we do really well at our company is keeping things very safe.
EH: Uh-huh.
SR: So I don't progress with a client until they're able to utilize a skill or do a skill. So -- and then when they are doing something that is unsafe, I'm able to stop them. You know, I make sure that we're planning ahead for everything. So I have never run into a circumstance where I've been frightened or the client's done something, you know, really bad. And when that has happened, it's always been in the parking lot, because I'm gauging it before we actually go out behind the wheel.
EH: You've never had a client who's tried to pull the wool over your eyes, maybe something with more visual involvement that they've --
SR: I have, but usually -- usually I pick up on it in the parking lot or on the side streets before we actually get into traffic or that type of thing. So, so far, I haven't really had something happen in high traffic situations. And, like I said, I think a lot of that is because we're trained to look for a lot of those things right off the bat and we're doing it in a very safe environment first, and my goal is to always, even though I need to challenge the client, to keep the environment as safe as I can until I know what their abilities are, and then I need to have a backup plan for everything they do so that I keep them safe and me safe is my priority.
EH: And pedestrians like myself safe.
SR: And pedestrians safe. I mean, we spend a lot of time with our clients going over the safety of pedestrians and bikers, yup.
EH: What about a real success story?
SR: I've had many, many success stories. You know, I think one individual that I saw, he came from another country, where in his country people -- he had post polio -- people don't drive. If you've had a disability, you just live with your family and they take care of you. And so for him to come here -- and he's going to school and he's working towards getting a job and he learned to drive with hand controls and passed the state road test, and that was just like a miracle to him. He was so gracious and so happy, and it was just so neat to see. And we have stories like that every day where, you know, we've had a spinal-cord-injured client that never thought he would gain that skill again and did and just is like hugging you and thanking you for the ability to do that again, and it's just really neat to see that.
EH: That's a great feeling. You're right, you know, there's nothing more rewarding than empowering people with something they never thought they'd ever have.
SR: Yeah, yeah.
EH: And you see that every day?
SR: Yup, and even on the downside when we do need to educate clients on, you know, giving up driving, it's also a relief to the family, and even though the clients might not be accepting of it at first, it's a step in the right direction of them looking at alternative ways to get around and things like that. So even though that's been kind of a harder part, it also is -- you feel like you've really helped the family to be able to make that decision and alleviated a burden, because they've been struggling with it for a long time with their family member. So there's both sides of it, but both are successes in their own way.
EH: So I guess I'd never get out of the parking lot, huh?
SR: Probably not.
EH: She's crushing me here.
SR: Yeah, I don't think there's a -- that we can adapt the driving for you, no.
EH: I was holding out hope.
SR: I know, I know. We need higher technology --
EH: C'mon.
SR: -- to keep working on that.
(Laughing.)
EH: Show some courage here. Let's go. And how can people get in touch with you?
SR: They can call Drive Safe directly. I'm available at 651-261-0271. We have a website. We are also working very closely with all the hospitals and clinics in the state of Minnesota and in Wisconsin, and we are starting to branch out into Iowa. So if they're involved in rehab, chances are their occupational therapist or their physician probably does know about us. So those would be some good ways for them to get ahold of us.
EH: Do you travel outside of the state?
SR: We travel -- particularly me. I travel all throughout Minnesota and part of Wisconsin, and then we have an occupational therapist who is a licensed driving instructor in Wisconsin, and we are in the process of getting someone in Iowa to serve Iowa. So we do travel in the rural areas, which is a good benefit, because a lot of those clients don't have any services in their area, and they don't want to come into the cities to drive. That's not what they're used to driving in. So they really need someone to come out to them. So what we have been trying to do is get the word out there about us so we can coordinate going out to see several people kind of in the same area so we can keep our costs down for the client, but we can go to them rather than them coming to us.
EH: Yeah, that's really nice. And for somebody who's used to driving in a rural environment and really has no intention --
SR: Right.
EH: -- of city driving, it's -- are there differences in --
SR: Oh, yeah, there's huge differences. In the rural areas you're looking at people who -- you know, they don't have a lot of traffic to deal with. That's not the issue, but they're dealing with two-lane highways, so it's critical that they be able to stay in their lane and have good lane position.
They don't have any -- a lot of those roads on the rural areas are very narrow, so they don't have a lot of play with not being able to stay in their lane. And they're also traveling at higher speeds often, because they're on highways most of the time in and around the rural areas until they get into the small towns. So they're not looking so much at congestion and traffic, but we are looking at ability to maneuver the vehicle at higher speeds on two-lane highways and that type of thing. So it's a very different form of driving. In your small towns, too, you're looking at if they're able to manage the distractions in the town, but it's a very different distraction than in the big city area where you have multiple, multiple distractions going on.
Program end music and ID:
You've been listening to a broadcast of STAR Point, a production of the MN STAR Program, a System of Technology to Achieve Results. If you would like to provide feedback, be a guest on our show, or if you'd like to find out more about the STAR Program, please visit our Web site at www.admin.state.mn.us/assistivetechnology. My name is Earle Harrison. Thank you for listening.